Get your coffee, folks... This'll be a LONG one!
I've not really spent much (perhaps any) time on this Blog discussing this topic that is truly near-and-dear to my heart. But I have spent a great deal of time warning friends in other circles (such as the Film Group I belong to) of the eventual hazards of STREAMING vs. physical media that you own... such as DVDs and Blu-ray discs!
I'd like to emphasize the *"that you own"* part of that last sentence... because when you stream, you "own" NOTHING!
Not only do you "own NOTHING" but you are at the mercies and arbitrary whims of the media giants that DO own this stuff - and THEY are subject to far too many forces, social and fiscal, that allow them to "take away something you like" with impunity!
For better or for worse, we live in an overly sensitive, grievance-driven, victimization-based society where the standards of "acceptability" can change by the day. I haven't checked lately but, by now, they may even change by the hour!
And this gives said media giants (Disney, Warner Bros./Discovery, and the rest) the impetus - with or without any reasonable or logical justification - to prevent your enjoyment or study of ANYTHING that falls under their respective umbrellas by effectively removing it from existence!
And WE, in our mad rush to abandon physical media and cede total control of our entertainment choices to these entities, have ignorantly allowed this to happen!
Indeed, we have allowed this to happen to such an extent that THEY (the many different forces of entertainment streaming) are now battling and consuming one another in a war that only few can win... and that WE have already begun losing!
When NETFLIX was pretty much the only big name in streaming, it was a very profitable endeavor for them. Now that everybody-and-their-intellectual-property-owning-brother have forced their way into the arena, it has segmented and splintered to the point where there is simply not enough for all - and many of the "streamy-come-lately" entrants are faltering in the flood waters loosed by their contemporaries! Even the Mighty Netflix is succumbing to such woes!
This is a problem I have been warning about since the very beginning!
And, yes, this was just about my precise reaction at the point that streaming achieved the dominance over physical media that it enjoys today!
Also, yes, many products of entertainment have since been denied to us (removed from existence, actually) for reasons both worthy and completely arbitrary, as well as financial.
But, whatever those executive-expunged products of entertainment may be, if you have them on DVD or Blu-ray (or even old VHS copies) YOU can still enjoy them whenever you wish, media giants be damned!
For instance, between legitimate releases and a great many bootlegs collected over the years, I can enjoy pretty much any Warner Bros. or Hanna-Barbera cartoon that interests me - ANYTIME I WANT!
13 comments:
This is a point very well taken, Joe! And timely!
A good case in point is Disney's "Song of the South" which is today branded as a racist film, when Walt's intention in making it was entirely opposite. One of his stated objectives was to preserve the rich heritage of African American folklore. He wrote: "It is because of the universal appeal of these legends, and their place in the artistic heritage of this country, that the Disney studio first became interested in presenting them on the screen." As it was, he was so vilified over this film that he never again put an African American in a leading role--thus being forced to take a step backward instead of forward. Today Walt Disney himself is branded as racist--despite his well-documented friendships with people like James Baskett who portrayed Uncle Remus in the film, and with Louis Armstrong, who even recorded a full album of Disney songs.
He is also branded as a Nazi and a Jew-hater--accusations which are again far from the truth. A screening of "Education for Death" or "Der Fuhrer's Face" will give the lie to the notion of his being a Nazi, and it is well documented that he was good friends with Richard and Robert Sherman, the song-writing brothers who were Jewish.
But thanks to the removal of these media, the lies about Walt Disney are what has gained currency, even in "official" articles from the Studio itself. Future generations will never know the truth about the real Walt Disney, because of this vilification. And because the proof of the real truth is being suppressed.
"Make Mine Music" is another example. The first segment, "The Martins and the Coys" has been removed and is now no longer shown. I do understand and sympathize with the reasoning behind this. I personally don't care much for the cartoon itself, and it does sort of promote gun violence (and domestic abuse, albeit in a satirical and humorous way). But the PTB have assumed that people are too stupid to judge for themselves and thus need to have the cartoon completely obliterated. (As a child I was exposed to gun violence and explosives and so forth in cartoons but it has not led to my being a proponent of guns or bombs--I am very anti that kind of violence in real life. So it doesn't automatically follow that a child will imitate what he or she sees. But to qualify this--as a parent there are some things I might censor a child from seeing and this cartoon might be one of them. But the mere fact that I don't like it should give credence to the reason why I am defending it. Censorship is still censorship.)
To continue, there are also many more reasons for preserving our "own" collections of video. Face it, there isn't one single universal criterion for what makes an enjoyable viewing, and many of my favorite films are not popular favorites, and therefore would not be available on any kind of streaming service. A case in point is the musical film that was made of "It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's Superman!" This is considered rubbish by most purists, a poorly done version of the hit Broadway musical. But as I have directed a production of this play, the filmed version holds much interest for me. And also I enjoy pretty nearly any performance (with some exceptions) of Lesley Anne Warren. So while the production's appeal to most people would be zero--to me it's worthwhile and enjoyable viewing, not only for the nostalgia appeal based on my stage experience of the musical, but I also appreciate the rare humor and tongue-in-cheek quality that went into this filming of it. Which is why I hunted for years until I found a copy for sale on DVD.
My question with streaming has always been--what if there is an obscure Bogart movie or a Garbo movie that I want to see? How do I find it? How do I stream it?
You are so right that streaming puts all of the power of viewing in the wrong hands!
And one more observation before I get off my soap box.
There is one huge drawback to DVDs which I am only lately discovering. They have a shelf life. There are many of my beloved movies that are no longer available to me because the disc has stopped playing. My entire collection of Mickey Rooney-Judy Garland musicals is taking up useless shelf space, because NONE of the discs work. I know I played each one of them when I first bought the set. But evidently the discs were designed for ONE showing only. Because now they don't work at all. In any device.
So even the solution of preserving our own classics in our own collections has a major problem associated with it. When a disc refuses to play, that is it. Kaput. The end.
Any way you look at it, there is no one secure and safe solution. DVDs and/or Blu=ray were touted as preserving our favorites for all time--but even those do not last forever. (If anyone reading this knows how to revive a dead disc--I would be grateful for the information.) And once this technology is gone--we'll be back where we started. But at least with colorful boxes and collector's tins, which are one aspect that can't be taken away so easily.
Thus, I totally agree with your main point, that it's best when our viewing choices remain in our own hands! Thanks for this post, and please forgive the long response! Best wishes!
Well, this is certainly disappointing news to start the year. Thanks for sharing your take on it.
I’m bewildered by it myself. As Mark Evanier points out in his post, it doesn’t really cost Warner Bros. Discovery anything to have classic Looney Tunes shorts available on HBO Max.
Certainly, I hope Mark Evanier’s take on the matter proves correct. For me, Warner Bros. Discovery is Looney Tunes. Without Looney Tunes, Warner Bros. Discovery is nothing. (Sorry, Casablanca. Sorry, Steve Irwin. You know it’s true). And The Flintstones is the most iconic Hanna-Barbera cartoon of them all. (Sorry, Scooby. You know it’s true).
Without Looney Tunes and The Flintstones, there is no reason to subscribe to HBO Max. At least in my view. But maybe that’s just not the case for most people these days. I fear that Looney Tunes may just not be as popular as it once was. With the exception of a brief resurgence on Cartoon Network in the 2010s, the cartoons haven’t aired on mainstream TV for decades. I, unfortunately, have to disagree with Mark Evanier about the merchandise aspect. When is the last time Tweety Bird or Taz appeared on any products? Looney Tunes simply isn’t the merchandising juggernaut it was in the 1990s.
Still, I’m hoping this is some sort of cynical yet clever PR stunt. Maybe Warner Bros. Discovery is doing this so that people won’t take their favorite cartoons for granite (Flintstones joke) and then they’ll announce they are available elsewhere. (Indeed, they are available on the Boomerang app, which many people initially thought would be replaced by HBO Max, but maybe that won’t be the case after all).
If the worst-case scenario comes to pass and the cartoons end up not being streamed anywhere, there is good news. According to Matt Hunter (who knows a lot about Warner Bros. cartoons), fans have made their own bootleg copies of these cartoons from DVD and HBO Max prints, so there is no need to fear the prospect of the cartoons becoming lost to history due to an unforeseen manmade or natural disaster (as the writer of this Slate article fears: https://slate.com/culture/2023/01/looney-tunes-hbo-max-removed.html).
In any event, and to speak to your larger point, Joe: You’re right. Physical media beats streaming any day of the week, and decisions like this one prove that to be the case.
I confess I didn’t feel that way until this decision was announced. I like the idea of streaming. Watch the TV shows you want, when you want.
But if your favorite shows get pulled for whatever reason, it sure is nice to own physical copies of them.
Here are my thoughts on the current streaming situation, and my own strategy for dealing with it. You have been right from the outset, of course, that we can’t trust any streaming service to keep any particular show/movie available, and this is just becoming more evident to the viewing population in general. Also, everyone is getting more frustrated by the difficulty in figuring out how/where to see what they want to see, with the proliferation of streaming services and the way they pick up and drop specific shows/movies month to month. Some people believe the situation is getting so bad that it will have to get better soon, perhaps with streaming services closing down or merging, given the difficulty the services have earning money. Others believe things will only continue to get worse.
My current strategy for watching stuff I want to watch has three parts: what I own on DVD, what I get from the public library system on DVD, what I stream.
What I own: I’m old enough to have lived through the VHS era, and buying or recording movies/shows on VHS helped me figure out what I really need to own. Those movies/shows fall into four categories. (1) Movies/shows I really love (not counting holiday stories) and will probably watch more than three times. This includes about a dozen movies and some British TV (the complete Joan Hickson Miss Marple, the Peter Wimsey/Harriet Vane three, a few Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes and David Suchet Poirot episodes, the complete Horatio Hornblower) plus a very few American TV things from my youth (the Twilight Zone “A Stop at Willoughby”, the Rocky & Bullwinkle Applesauce-Lorraine story arc). (2) Movies/shows and animated shorts I watch at holidays: about 8 movies and 6 TV episodes/specials for Christmas, 5 movies for Halloween, etc. This is because I might not be able to get them from the library *when* I want to watch them. (3) Fred Astaire movies, because Fred Astaire. All the Astaire & Rogers movies, plus several others. (4) Animated and other “family” movies I will want to re-watch, because the library DVDs of these will often be too scratched up to work smoothly.
What I get from the public library system: I can trust that most of the non-“family” movies I want to re-watch will be available from the library. My town library is part of an excellent consortium of libraries in Connecticut which corporately have a very fine collection of DVDs, including foreign and art films, with more than one copy of most movies I care about in the system. I know I’ll be able to get Water, Smoke Signals, Bringing Up Baby, Arsenic and Old Lace, My Cousin Vinny, Babette’s Feast, etc. whenever I want to see them in the future. Of course, I also get new-to-me movies on DVD from the library. That’s always the first place I check, before I check to see which streaming service has something.
What I stream: I keep a running list of movies (new and old) I want to see with an extra column indicating where they’re available: library and/or streaming service. It’s seriously annoying (see above) that streaming services drop movies regularly and I have to update that list. But not annoying enough to convince me to buy every single movie/show I want to see once. So, I’ll have lists of things I want to see on various streaming services, and when one of those lists has more than half a dozen things on it, I will join that streaming service for one or two months and work my way through that list, and then drop the service. So far I’ve done this only with Disney and Netflix; I have a neighbor/friend who has Apple and Amazon Prime, and I’ve been able to watch at her house the few things I’ve been interested in which were only available there. This strategy has worked well for me so far. Right now I’m signed up for two months of Netflix. I’ve signed up for one month of Disney+ twice in the last three years, and I've definitely gotten my money's worth on those one-month stints.
So many great comments! Sorry for the delay in posting them - “Extreme Baby-Sitting” and writing deadlines, you know! Let’s get to them…
As Scarecrow33 has contributed three individual comments (presumably because Google would not allow the uploading one massive comment), I will address his comments individually as well. Oh, and we LIKE “massive comments” around here, so never let that deter any of you!
SCARECROW33 #1:
You’ve made my point very nicely, considering that I have “Song of the South” on bootleg (probably the only way an American could see it today), as well as “Education for Death” and “Der Fuhrer’s Face” previously released as part of the wonderful, late, and very much lamented “Disney Treasures” line of DVDs.
To whatever degree one might believe (…and said beliefs DO vary considerably), Mr. Disney HAS taken a bad rap on the matters you cite, and it’s all the more ironic that material that could possibly mitigate the circumstances has been banned by those working under his corporate banner.
As for “gun violence and explosives and so forth in cartoons” I need look no further than the squeaky-voiced, squeaky-clean, squeaky-pro-social, squeaky-pro-teamwork, squeaky-pro-toy-and-merchandise-selling pap that Averi and Cici watch every day to appreciate the unfortunate results of THAT!
Just last week at my house, Averi (5) happened to see TOM AND JERRY and roared with laughter, and has also enjoyed the Road Runner and the Pink Panther – courtesy of her “Yeh-Yeh”. Cici (2) still needs a little time… but I can be patient.
There are things that I have to explain to Averi, which I took for granted even at that age… like HUNTING, a comedy staple of the cartoons we love! She (wonderfully, I’d say) did not understand the concept of someone stalking or chasing after an animal (even an anthropomorphic one) with a gun! I tried explaining to her that “it’s just something that some people do!” “But, WHY?”, she came back with. “I don’t know, Avi, and I don’t understand it either!” was my best reply.
That’s not to say that there aren’t things that she’s not ready for (Wow, a triple-negative!) … there are many, but they will filter-in at the appropriate time.
For instance, around Thanksgiving, I pulled out the DVD set “Looney Tunes Super Stars: Porky and Friends Hilarious Ham” to show her “Tom Turk and Daffy”, because we were discussing why turkeys would be hiding at Thanksgiving time. Again, she loved it. Though it was very funny. And, this is precisely why we should NOT keep things like this away from her! This was the cartoon that prompted our discussion of hunting, so there was some additional benefit beyond mere entertainment.
However, the next two cartoons on the disc were “Wagon Heels” (with Porky going up against “Injun Joe the Super Chief”) and “Mouse Menace”, where Porky builds a robot cat to deal with a pesky but persistent mouse.
I wisely skipped over “Wagon Heels”, which would no doubt prompt a conversation I felt would be best saved for a later time, and went directly to “Mouse Menace”. SHE LOVED THAT EVEN MORE, with all its slapstick gags that culminate with a massive explosion that destroys Porky’s house, and asked to see it THREE TIMES in succession – laughing harder each time!
So, it’s a fine line to walk, but it should be HER FAMILY walking it… not Warner Bros./Discovery!
SCARECROW33 #2:
Perhaps – nay, without doubt – the most significant aspect of the Home Video Era is the ability to build one’s own Personal Entertainment Library, and to do so specifically to one’s own taste. While I might not think all that highly of musicals, others might dismiss my beloved Italian “Giallo” films as rubbish. The latter was a resultant discovery (…NOT “Warner Bros./Discovery”, thank you very much!) and interest born of my Thursday Night Film Group. And, not that I spend any time exploring the sordid back alleys of the streaming giants, but I don’t think I’d find many Gialli (the proper pleural form of Giallo) if I did. But, thankfully, very many of them are available on DVD and Blu-ray.
My own Personal Entertainment Library (might I coin the acronym “PEL”?), consisting of both theatrical and television products, is chock full of: Animation, Science-Fiction, Horror; Film Noir, Detective/Mystery, Westerns, and Gialli. Comedy tends to lean heavier toward ‘50s thru early ‘70s TV than the big screen, but Abbott and Costello, Hope and Crosby; The Three Stooges, etc. hold their own. There are also Golden Age Warner Bros., RKO, and Universal (my favorite studios) films aplenty.
Then, there are the more “actor-centric” subsets: Humphrey Bogart, James Cagney, Edward G. Robinson, Errol Flynn, John Wayne, Barbara Stanwyck, Ida Lupino, Joan Crawford; Glenda Farrell, Joan Blondell, Boris Karloff, Bela Lugosi, Lon Chaney (Sr. and Jr.), Vincent Price, Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee… and (while not an “actor”, though he certainly has “appeared in” a great number of film and television productions) ANYTHING BY ALFRED HITCHCOCK! As you can see by the photo in the post, Irwin Allen has his own specific place of honor, as do the various Star Trek, Walking Dead, and Stargate series.
And, “if there is an obscure Bogart movie that I want to see”, I’ll just go upstairs to my “PEL” (…Thanks for that, Joe!) and pick it off the shelf. While there certainly would be those “Bogies” outside the bounds of my “PEL” (…Thanks again for that, Joe! …I’m welcome!), I *do* have – by my unofficial count - an accumulation of 51 Bogart films (starring or lesser roles), and would probably find the one I seek.
But, as I emphasize, this stuff, like comic books, is very important to me – and, once I was able to “own pieces of it”, I set out to “own as many pieces of it as I could”, anticipating the day when the studios would take it all back!
“You are so right that streaming puts all of the power of viewing in the wrong hands!”
And, until the last DVD/Blu-ray player rolls off some Japanese assembly line, that power mostly remains in my own trusted hands.
SCARECROW33 #3:
Your third comment is the most surprising of all, because I have never experienced such a thing! I have had an occasional VHS tape show its wear by some sound and picture “drop-out” (especially when using an “off-brand”), but no such problem with DVD or Blu-ray.
That said, this very day, I retrieved my FIRST DVD PURCHASES from back in early 2004 – LOST IN SPACE Season One, SEX AND THE CITY Season One (bought for Esther, but we watched it together and I came to like it too), and THE LOONEY TUNES GOLDEN COLLECTION Volume One – and played one disc from each set for about 10-15 minutes each without issue!
And, if you’re thinking that it might be a matter of wear, consider how many times I would have dipped into those LIS and LT sets over the past 19 (!) years. …Whatever your guess, I’ve probably exceeded it!
This is something I’d like to explore with you off the Blog. A lot of Fantagraphics writing ahead of me, but I will contact you sometime over the coming week for further discussion.
Sergio (you write):
“As Mark Evanier points out in his post, it doesn’t really cost Warner Bros. Discovery anything to have classic Looney Tunes shorts available on HBO Max.”
Um… YEAH, you’d THINK! The ways of media accounting are “a cowardly and superstitious lot”… um, I mean very strange and intricate. Why would Warner Bros./Discovery choose to not show an ALREADY COMPLETED Batgirl film on HBO Max? Or abandon the CNN+ streaming service a week or so after launch? Something about write-offs, and other stuff I’ll never understand.
“Without Looney Tunes, Warner Bros. Discovery is nothing. (Sorry, Casablanca. Sorry, Steve Irwin. You know it’s true).”
…HEY! Watch what you say about “Casablanca”! Of all the movies, from all the subsidiaries of Warner Bros./Discovery, in all the world, you tear into my greatest of all time! :-) Steve Irwin may be only a “croc”, but “Casablanca” is ROYALTY!
The classic Looney Tunes have indeed been at least diminished, what with their general absence and their overall dilution by recent remakes of the characters (probably all in the name of sanitizing the animation landscape)… but, as Averi’s reaction above bears out, they are ROYALTY, too!
Matt Hunter, who used to have a good LT comics Blog before it went dark, may have good news on the bootleg front but, as long as those bootleg copies remain in private individual hands (like mine), it doesn’t mean the unwashed masses of streaming will be able to see them. They really need to be properly administered by whatever entity is in charge of the LT library and put into general viewing venues – or just issue some more damned DVDs!
“In any event, and to speak to your larger point, Joe: You’re right. Physical media beats streaming any day of the week, and decisions like this one prove that to be the case. I confess I didn’t feel that way until this decision was announced. I like the idea of streaming. Watch the TV shows you want, when you want.”
But, I CAN “watch the TV shows [I] want, when [I] want.” It’s the duped, innocent streamers for whom that becomes less and less of a sure thing! Happy to have at least partially turned you! :-)
Elaine:
I must declare you a master strategist in your approach toward entertainment viewing!
With so many such services (A) it’s difficult to keep track of what’s on which one, and (B) it’s “The Death of Thousand Cuts” once you begin paying for subscriptions to multiple services.
It was some while back (and I’m sure it’s somewhere in the depths of this humble Blog) that I came to realize that, when it came to seeing movies, buying one ticket for me and one for Esther cost more than buying the DVD! So, even if we watched it only once – and there are times that happened – it’s still a savings! More so, if you factor in food and drink, gas, the inconvenience of being there at a specific time, crowding, possible exposure to COVID, etc. …And I still have that DVD to watch at any future time the mood seizes me.
And so it goes with streaming services! Subscribing to one may be analogous to buying one ticket to a movie, while subscribing to several to cover your various entertainment interests becomes more expensive than just buying the DVD, and being done with it. You aren’t paying for that same DVD multiple times, every month… even if you jump-in-and-out regularly as you (wisely) do. ...AND whatever service can't take that DVD away from you for social, political, or financial reasons.
Oddly, I never considered the public library system as a source. Probably because I used to work odd and often unpredictable hours… and when the notion hits me late at night, the library is not open. I was aware of it as-such but, for some reason, never seriously regarded it as an option.
One thing I find amazing is the level to which you parse certain favorites as in “the Twilight Zone “A Stop at Willoughby” [and] the Rocky & Bullwinkle Applesauce-Lorraine story arc. I always figured you take the good with the bad… but, you just watch the good more often.
For LOST IN SPACE you take “Blast Off Into Space” and “Visit to a Hostile Planet”, and you get “Junkyard of Space” and “The Girl from the Green Dimension”. For STAR TREK TOS you take “City on the Edge of Forever” and “Amok Time”, and you get “Spock’s Brain” and “For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky”! It’s just part of the deal.
And once again I offer kudos to “that little old list-maker, you”, for successfully keeping track of what runs where! No task for the faint of heart, that!
I remember feeling miserable last year, when I discovered I couldn't record any programs off the TV anymore - "This program cannot be recorded"...something I had learned to do since I was 7 years old, to be able to rewatch cartoons, sitcoms, movies, etc, usually because not everything is offered on home video, or if so, may not be affordable, (or, as in the case of boxed sets, I might not like every episode) so I tolerated having recordings with all the faults of cruddy analog TV antenna reception (it's because of YouTube that I learned a lot of people had the same experience in this regard), and in some cases, keeping terrible re-recordings of tape-to-disc transfers, because the VCR was on it's last legs "eating" the tape or I had to keep what survived because the VHS recording had better sound/picture quality than the MOD DVD offered at retail, especially from VCRs that delivered on "Hi-Fi Stereo sound" that blows digital sound out of the water; I can kinda understand the demand for VHS tapes in that sense, but it only works the first time, out of the box. And then there's the awful truth that Disney's copy-protected tapes become useless paperweights when there's no VCR to play them anymore, or if I don't want to burn out the last VCR I have...that's a whole other story. And now, that's all over.
‘Rehab:
So very sorry, for not having noticed this comment until now. I can’t imagine why that happened but, it did!
It’s interesting that you only lived in a world where TV programs could be recorded and watched over-and-over again, at one’s leisure! For me, sadly (VERY sadly), once a show was over… it was OVER (usually for another week – which is a very long time, when you’re a kid)!
Oddly (or, perhaps not so oddly) that is why I gravitated toward comic books – as a way of extending the experience, sating the pangs until the next broadcast. That’s also why I later embraced home VHS recording whole-hog and, since then, have accumulated a vast amount of DVDs.
In fact, one of the primary reasons I’ve never gotten on board with streaming is that I’ve become USED TO OWNING the various things I care to watch, and resent having to cede control of them to people who decidedly do not share my interests and sensibilities.
As for having box sets, I may not like everything a particular series has to offer – so, I watch the ones that I know I like and, occasionally take a peek at the “other ones”… and sometimes find that, when seeing them from a different perspective, I might actually like them too!
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